Damn, that sucks so bad. I know that we've struggled with him in our offense, and it may very well be that Baker plays better without him, but how can you not love this guy's heart and desire?
This likely ends his Browns career and man, it just sucks. I truly wish him the best and hope he goes to AZ or SEA or somewhere where we don't see him but can still cheer for him.
I know smart teams aren't supposed to trade picks for veterans but damn...it's tempting to try to fast forward this thing right now.
Losing OBJ, as much as it hurts in terms of splash plays, may actually be a benefit in that there is now NO QUESTION that Landry is WR1, Chubb and the three TEs are the focus of the offense, Baker is in charge, and no more talk about anything but winning TOGETHER.
And so, if the defense is only a piece or two away, could there be a safety out there that is worth keeping? Especially if it's likely we let OBJ and his cap hit go?
When it comes to adding a veteran, I think it boils down to this.
Can they help us win THIS YEAR?
Gone are the days of picking someone up to mentor the kids and finish out the season. We are 5-2 with 9 games to go. Wins in 6 of those remaining 9 definitely puts us in the playoffs, maybe 5 will do it.
With all the crap that happened in 2020, wouldn't that be a ginormous leap forward for this franchise?
The kids grew up big time yesterday. It's their show now - without question. I am confident AB will make the moves necessary to help them into the playoffs. Let next year be next year - we will worry about that then.
This is why I think that Odell has played his last down as a Brown.
Post injury - Odell has less than zero trade value. Sometimes things just are what they are and no one in particular is to blame - but the offense ran so much better after Odell went out.
The kids grew up. They earned the right for more playing time.
If you factor in the overall performance of the offense and balance that against the economic impact of bringing Odell back in 2021 - it becomes a no brainer.
If this had happened a week ago, I would say Ngakoue would be the guy to bring in...but he is a Ratbird now. I think a legit MLB or S are tops on our needs list.
We can walk and chew gum. We're in a position to add a player on defense and a speed WR to complete our battery. And we should.
We're also one of 4 or 5 teams that have a bye matching up perfectly with the trade deadline, and they're always the most likely. Perriman and Poole from the Jets, a one-stop shop? Maybe.
I just don't know if we'll add another safety because we have Harrison (our best), Delpit, and Redwine for next year. Maybe Joseph. I'm not sure that leaves room for another guy but maybe I'm wrong. Denzel, Mitch, and KJ are good. Should get Greedy back soon.
At LB, I'd say Smith and Mack are playing well. I'd love to get a longer look at Phillips, his speed really pops. But if we could add a quality 'backer who can cover, I could see that.
No DE not named Myles is doing shit. That feels like a high priority for taking this defense to the next level, his bookend. If we got an edge having trouble getting on the field, that could be another target.
It's lean... and Landry and Higgins are similar guys. That said, it seemed to work yesterday and in 2018, but I loved when Perriman was out there spreading the field.
DPJ has that speed but I don't know if he's ready to fill the role full-time yet. Taylor just hasn't done shit for us so far and he was supposed to man the slot. I think Hodge has a ton of untapped upside, so I feel really good about his return.
But I'm mostly just thinking about getting a win against the Raiders, which we really should. Then I'd be looking at a trade going into the bye. Perfect time.
Wonder if there's anybody to be had from the Vikings, Niners, or Titans? Anybody getting underutilized? Same offense, basically.
I don't think Higgins is Landry. First, Higgins is 6'1 to Landry 5'11". Higgins ran a 4.64, Landry a 4.77. So Higgins is bigger and faster than Landry. The biggest similarity is that they both have great hands and can catch the ball in traffic, fight for the ball.
DPJ had a 4.48 and is 6'2", so he could be a stretch the field guy. Bradley looks like he has speed, 4.4 at his virtual combine...so if he is ready he could be a stretch guy.
I think DPJ has the long speed, just not sure if he's ready yet. But... did not know that he and Higgins were 9 targets for 9 completions and 168. Just so much more efficient.
Someone asked Lane about Perriman and he said he's the kind of over the top guy who could round it out.
This is amazing:
(Aw shit, never mind, it's a tweet and I have no clue. Happened once on accident.)
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Baker Mayfield's stats WITH OBJ in the lineup: <br><br>22 games<br>59.7%<br>4,922 yards (223.7 YPG)<br>32 TDs<br>27 INTs<br><br>Mayfield's stats WITHOUT OBJ in the lineup: <br><br>15 games<br>65.6%<br>4,022 yards (268.1 YPG)<br>32 TDs<br>15 INTS</p>— Brent Sobleski (@brentsobleski) <a href="https://twitter.com/brentsobleski/status/1320824062961209344?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 26, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Orlovsky just said the same thing Jake Burns wrote: It's not a slam on OBJ but the offense and Baker are statistically better when he's out. Orlovsky think Baker is thinking about the play and his reads/progressions without OBJ... with him, he's thinking about getting the ball to OBJ.
Two different coaching staffs have said, "We have to get him the ball, get him started early." Etc. I've never liked that in an offense.
Also agree that the Browns could prioritize WR for R1 next year. They're probably never drafting a LB higher than R2 and we aren't likely to be looking for safeties with Delpit, Harrison, and Redwine all like 12 years old and good.
I think edge and WR are our high-dollar items (on in f/a). Then LB in R2, corner in 3.
It may be semantics, but I disagree with Orlovsky and Burns. I think the difference is WITH OBJ, Baker is thinking he needs to get him the ball...without OBJ Baker isn't thinking...he is PLAYING!!!
It's funny, before this game, I may have argued that "how can that be, he's a pro, blah, blah, blah" but...the evidence before my eyes seems pretty clear that we saw a decisive, fearless, accurate Baker post-OBJ injury.
The generous take on that is that he was fired up for his friend and hungry guys played hungry and it had nothing to do with OBJ other than that.
However...the stats don't seem to lie when it comes to Baker with and without OBJ on the field and it's pretty clear that for whatever reason, this marriage is not meant to be.
The closest thing to this that I can remember is when Carolina had to make a choice between Steve Smith and Cam Newton, who clearly were clashing on the field and in the locker room. They picked Cam and Smith went on to win a ring (I think?) in Baltimore and Flacco.
Even still, that was the right choice. The QB has to be The Guy because he literally picks who gets the ball. If you have a WR who demands the ball/spotlight/attention, it can be an issue.
I wish this wasn't true for OBJ and Baker but it seems it likely is.
I think it also has something to do with this offense and this coach, how they want the QB to play... and then OBJ's presence is more complication than boon.
There are so many stats, several on Scott Van Pelt's show. Baker's numbers passing to anybody but OBJ this season AND overall are impossible to discount. Extend that to his career and they get even more glaring.
He's bad when he's targeting OBJ. Last year, while dinged, OBJ was something like 92nd in separation, just wasn't open. That shouldn't have been the issue this season though, and the trend continued.
To be honest, I think OBJ is a highlight reel who doesn't really create wins over the course of a season like a consistent contributor would. Like Michael Thomas or Nuke Hopkins, etc. And frankly, that's more Rashard Higgins, which only sounds crazy until you go deep dish into his numbers with Baker.
High target/completion rate. Really high % for first downs. High PR and QBR. Those things win games.
Am I comfortable with Higgins, Landry, DPJ, and Hodge over a longer sample? Not really, but mostly because I don't know enough about DPJ at this level yet. My gut would be to add a specialist, a speed guy who scares safeties. I wouldn't invest a lot because I think we'll draft a WR high, probably R1.
So I keep coming back to Perriman or John Brown. And BTW, "The Good Lord Bird" is so fucking awesome, why is nobody talking about it???
If we keep Njoku, it does change things. You have three terrific pass-catching TEs and one of the better receiving backs in football in Hunt, who can lean into that more when Chubb is back. But I'd still add some speed on the cheap.
The fact that AB has not had a knee jerk reaction to the OBJ injury speaks volumes about his professional acumen - and it plays very well in the locker room.
Read MK's premise that Landry, Higgins, Hodge, and DPJ will be perfectly fine considering Njoku isn't likely to get traded so we have a lot of receiving TEs, plus Chubb's return puts Hunt more in the receiving group again.
She allowed some opening for adding speedster on the cheap... and I think we should. Perriman coming up more, has some vibe with Baker and isn't being used in NY.
More expensive versions are Fuller and Cooks... I don't see that happening, throwing huge numbers at another WR. I really think we'll be drafting one no later than R2 and quite possibly R1.
I saw this yesterday on Twitter and it is another good reason Andrew Berry doesn't need to panic and overpay for a WR in a trade.
The Browns brought in, among others, former Brown WR Derrick Willies for a workout. We all know how productive he was with Baker, and the chemistry they shared.
Damn, that sucks so bad. I know that we've struggled with him in our offense, and it may very well be that Baker plays better without him, but how can you not love this guy's heart and desire?
This likely ends his Browns career and man, it just sucks. I truly wish him the best and hope he goes to AZ or SEA or somewhere where we don't see him but can still cheer for him.
I think AB uses the open roster spot on another position. The young 'uns proved themselves yesterday beyond the shadow of a doubt.
Hello Harrison Smith?
I know smart teams aren't supposed to trade picks for veterans but damn...it's tempting to try to fast forward this thing right now.
Losing OBJ, as much as it hurts in terms of splash plays, may actually be a benefit in that there is now NO QUESTION that Landry is WR1, Chubb and the three TEs are the focus of the offense, Baker is in charge, and no more talk about anything but winning TOGETHER.
And so, if the defense is only a piece or two away, could there be a safety out there that is worth keeping? Especially if it's likely we let OBJ and his cap hit go?
Smith, Maye, Harris...mmmm...safetylicioiusness...
When it comes to adding a veteran, I think it boils down to this.
Can they help us win THIS YEAR?
Gone are the days of picking someone up to mentor the kids and finish out the season. We are 5-2 with 9 games to go. Wins in 6 of those remaining 9 definitely puts us in the playoffs, maybe 5 will do it.
With all the crap that happened in 2020, wouldn't that be a ginormous leap forward for this franchise?
The kids grew up big time yesterday. It's their show now - without question. I am confident AB will make the moves necessary to help them into the playoffs. Let next year be next year - we will worry about that then.
I'm with you Brookster. I can't imagine a 3rd or 4th (or a combo) can't get something done.
We'll learn a lot about AB and our new direction this week.
Here's hoping for some (smart) aggressive moves and a November and December to remember!
This is why I think that Odell has played his last down as a Brown.
Post injury - Odell has less than zero trade value. Sometimes things just are what they are and no one in particular is to blame - but the offense ran so much better after Odell went out.
The kids grew up. They earned the right for more playing time.
If you factor in the overall performance of the offense and balance that against the economic impact of bringing Odell back in 2021 - it becomes a no brainer.
https://www.rotoworld.com/football/nfl/player/10466/odell-beckham
If this had happened a week ago, I would say Ngakoue would be the guy to bring in...but he is a Ratbird now. I think a legit MLB or S are tops on our needs list.
We can walk and chew gum. We're in a position to add a player on defense and a speed WR to complete our battery. And we should.
We're also one of 4 or 5 teams that have a bye matching up perfectly with the trade deadline, and they're always the most likely. Perriman and Poole from the Jets, a one-stop shop? Maybe.
I just don't know if we'll add another safety because we have Harrison (our best), Delpit, and Redwine for next year. Maybe Joseph. I'm not sure that leaves room for another guy but maybe I'm wrong. Denzel, Mitch, and KJ are good. Should get Greedy back soon.
At LB, I'd say Smith and Mack are playing well. I'd love to get a longer look at Phillips, his speed really pops. But if we could add a quality 'backer who can cover, I could see that.
No DE not named Myles is doing shit. That feels like a high priority for taking this defense to the next level, his bookend. If we got an edge having trouble getting on the field, that could be another target.
We only had 4 WR’s active yesterday, so our 3 WR sets were on life support after the OBJ injury.
Does that seem like that’s running a little too lean?
It's lean... and Landry and Higgins are similar guys. That said, it seemed to work yesterday and in 2018, but I loved when Perriman was out there spreading the field.
DPJ has that speed but I don't know if he's ready to fill the role full-time yet. Taylor just hasn't done shit for us so far and he was supposed to man the slot. I think Hodge has a ton of untapped upside, so I feel really good about his return.
But I'm mostly just thinking about getting a win against the Raiders, which we really should. Then I'd be looking at a trade going into the bye. Perfect time.
Wonder if there's anybody to be had from the Vikings, Niners, or Titans? Anybody getting underutilized? Same offense, basically.
I don't think Higgins is Landry. First, Higgins is 6'1 to Landry 5'11". Higgins ran a 4.64, Landry a 4.77. So Higgins is bigger and faster than Landry. The biggest similarity is that they both have great hands and can catch the ball in traffic, fight for the ball.
DPJ had a 4.48 and is 6'2", so he could be a stretch the field guy. Bradley looks like he has speed, 4.4 at his virtual combine...so if he is ready he could be a stretch guy.
Bradley? Who's that?
I think DPJ has the long speed, just not sure if he's ready yet. But... did not know that he and Higgins were 9 targets for 9 completions and 168. Just so much more efficient.
Someone asked Lane about Perriman and he said he's the kind of over the top guy who could round it out.
This is amazing:
(Aw shit, never mind, it's a tweet and I have no clue. Happened once on accident.)
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Baker Mayfield's stats WITH OBJ in the lineup: <br><br>22 games<br>59.7%<br>4,922 yards (223.7 YPG)<br>32 TDs<br>27 INTs<br><br>Mayfield's stats WITHOUT OBJ in the lineup: <br><br>15 games<br>65.6%<br>4,022 yards (268.1 YPG)<br>32 TDs<br>15 INTS</p>— Brent Sobleski (@brentsobleski) <a href="https://twitter.com/brentsobleski/status/1320824062961209344?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 26, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Man this site needs embedding so badly
Brent Sobleski
Baker Mayfield's stats WITH OBJ in the lineup:
22 games
59.7%
4,922 yards (223.7 YPG)
32 TDs
27 INTs
Mayfield's stats WITHOUT OBJ in the lineup:
15 games
65.6%
4,022 yards (268.1 YPG)
32 TDs
15 INTS
Stats from Sobleski, Baker with and without OBJ. Way better without.
Somebody tell us how to do Tweets!! I got on one accident once.
Orlovsky just said the same thing Jake Burns wrote: It's not a slam on OBJ but the offense and Baker are statistically better when he's out. Orlovsky think Baker is thinking about the play and his reads/progressions without OBJ... with him, he's thinking about getting the ball to OBJ.
Two different coaching staffs have said, "We have to get him the ball, get him started early." Etc. I've never liked that in an offense.
Also agree that the Browns could prioritize WR for R1 next year. They're probably never drafting a LB higher than R2 and we aren't likely to be looking for safeties with Delpit, Harrison, and Redwine all like 12 years old and good.
I think edge and WR are our high-dollar items (on in f/a). Then LB in R2, corner in 3.
That appears to be the coda to OBJ's time in CLE: we had high hopes, it was exciting, but it never really worked out.
AND...now I'm back to considering WRs like offensive hood ornaments. They just don't move the needle enough compared to all the hype they bring.
Give me 12 sets with Chubb/Hunt back soon!
It may be semantics, but I disagree with Orlovsky and Burns. I think the difference is WITH OBJ, Baker is thinking he needs to get him the ball...without OBJ Baker isn't thinking...he is PLAYING!!!
It's funny, before this game, I may have argued that "how can that be, he's a pro, blah, blah, blah" but...the evidence before my eyes seems pretty clear that we saw a decisive, fearless, accurate Baker post-OBJ injury.
The generous take on that is that he was fired up for his friend and hungry guys played hungry and it had nothing to do with OBJ other than that.
However...the stats don't seem to lie when it comes to Baker with and without OBJ on the field and it's pretty clear that for whatever reason, this marriage is not meant to be.
The closest thing to this that I can remember is when Carolina had to make a choice between Steve Smith and Cam Newton, who clearly were clashing on the field and in the locker room. They picked Cam and Smith went on to win a ring (I think?) in Baltimore and Flacco.
Even still, that was the right choice. The QB has to be The Guy because he literally picks who gets the ball. If you have a WR who demands the ball/spotlight/attention, it can be an issue.
I wish this wasn't true for OBJ and Baker but it seems it likely is.
I think it also has something to do with this offense and this coach, how they want the QB to play... and then OBJ's presence is more complication than boon.
There are so many stats, several on Scott Van Pelt's show. Baker's numbers passing to anybody but OBJ this season AND overall are impossible to discount. Extend that to his career and they get even more glaring.
He's bad when he's targeting OBJ. Last year, while dinged, OBJ was something like 92nd in separation, just wasn't open. That shouldn't have been the issue this season though, and the trend continued.
To be honest, I think OBJ is a highlight reel who doesn't really create wins over the course of a season like a consistent contributor would. Like Michael Thomas or Nuke Hopkins, etc. And frankly, that's more Rashard Higgins, which only sounds crazy until you go deep dish into his numbers with Baker.
High target/completion rate. Really high % for first downs. High PR and QBR. Those things win games.
Am I comfortable with Higgins, Landry, DPJ, and Hodge over a longer sample? Not really, but mostly because I don't know enough about DPJ at this level yet. My gut would be to add a specialist, a speed guy who scares safeties. I wouldn't invest a lot because I think we'll draft a WR high, probably R1.
So I keep coming back to Perriman or John Brown. And BTW, "The Good Lord Bird" is so fucking awesome, why is nobody talking about it???
If we keep Njoku, it does change things. You have three terrific pass-catching TEs and one of the better receiving backs in football in Hunt, who can lean into that more when Chubb is back. But I'd still add some speed on the cheap.
The fact that AB has not had a knee jerk reaction to the OBJ injury speaks volumes about his professional acumen - and it plays very well in the locker room.
Hodge to rejoin the team today.
https://twitter.com/RuiterWrongFAN/status/1321449775095570434
Read MK's premise that Landry, Higgins, Hodge, and DPJ will be perfectly fine considering Njoku isn't likely to get traded so we have a lot of receiving TEs, plus Chubb's return puts Hunt more in the receiving group again.
She allowed some opening for adding speedster on the cheap... and I think we should. Perriman coming up more, has some vibe with Baker and isn't being used in NY.
More expensive versions are Fuller and Cooks... I don't see that happening, throwing huge numbers at another WR. I really think we'll be drafting one no later than R2 and quite possibly R1.
I saw this yesterday on Twitter and it is another good reason Andrew Berry doesn't need to panic and overpay for a WR in a trade.
The Browns brought in, among others, former Brown WR Derrick Willies for a workout. We all know how productive he was with Baker, and the chemistry they shared.
They also just activated Khaderal Hodge.