So, first thread I've started here, just wanted to get'er goin'.
I'm still concerned about this room. I'm not saying Bradham, Kendricks, or Matthews will make me feel a ton better, in fact, it'll be a crowded room. But if I'm Bill B., I'd pound the LB part of the defense until we cry mercy.
There's been some Phillips > Mack talk. Talk as well that we reeeeeeally need Taktaki to show up.
Thoughts?
And I'll write my maiden reply: Reading a lot from two of my favorite digital dudes, Jake Bruns and Brent Sobleski, that the Browns would love the most talented two (Wilson-Phillips, hold on for one more day) to win the jobs in spite of JP's youth.
I get the sense they like BJ but he was a safe and solid signing, Philips has more upside. But overall, they think the group is not zowie athletic enough to overcome the lack of experience and be "great." But they could be "good," layers on either side of them are very good.
I keep getting the same they think Sione isn't a long-term guy. Gonna let him get after the QB a bit. He's really been working hard so maybe it works out.
Feels like if they get Bradham, that group becomes at least "solid to good."
I've also ready Takitaki may be the "special teams linebacker" that every Browns team seems to have. Heck, maybe every NFL team has that.
We will know soon enough if Andrew Berry, Kevin Stefanski, and Joe Woods were correct in utilizing the 4-2-5 alignment as a base. I think they are.
The chronic problem that Browns teams of the past couple of years have fought to overcome has been poor tackling.
Look at everyone that was brought in. They all tackle well. Give AB another off season, and we will have studs on defense.
Jacob Phillips showed up big when it really mattered. He simply does not miss many tackles.
JP’s market share was fantastic. Led the SEC in tackles I believe.
He has nice size too. 6’3”, 230, and just turned 21.
Correct, Ocon. We got the leading tackler from arguably the toughest division in the premier conference in college football.
And that is a GREAT point about him being just 21. Plenty of time for growth.
Definitely not an accident that we homed in on tacklers, not hybrid cover guys. Tells me that when Joe turns around to find a cover guy, it'll be a corner or safety, not a LB. Those two guys (mostly) will be asked to drop and spy and not a lot more.
They'll be paid to tackle.
And don't forget, JSS, that we drafted and just signed another tackling stud from the SEC - DT Jordan Elliot.
Little on the 4-2-5...it isn't the same lineup as back in the 80's and 90's.
Now what you have is 2 S guys that can play LB style, come up and turn it into a single deep, but can also drop back into 3 deep. It is not JUST for coverage, but is also quite effective at jamming up the middle because it so easily converts into a 4-4-3 or 4-3-4 with the player versatility.
I think this is going to be a very fun D to watch...and I anticipate a lot more turnover production.
Bingo! This defense will be more fun to watch under Joe "I have a plan" Woods instead of Steve "I don't have a clue" Wilks.
I like the common sense approach to player acquisition when you consider the selections from a pure foundational perspective.
Wills was the best pass blocker in the class. Thomas arguably had more upside and was a better run blocker, Wirfs/Becton were lauded for their upside, Cleveland and Jones (I think his name was Jones?) got all the love as scheme fits, but we just took the best blocker who ticks all the boxes.
Delpit has some tackling issues but he's versatile, fantastic in coverage and an intelligent leader. A guy who was very much a shock to have fallen that far. As Ryan Clark pointed out in defending Delpit, missing open field tackles for a safety typically means something has already broken down and a lot of guys are near impossible to bring down in open space regardless. What he'll be asked to do every down is where he excels, and we'll worry about the rest later.
Phillips is questionable with his coverage upside and won't ever be the Simmons type, but he's a tackling machine who displays high level instincts, clogs his gaps and lanes and consistently brings down the guys he does get his hands on. We've struggled with stopping the run, so we grabbed a linebacker who is a beast when it comes to stopping the run. Simple.
The list goes on and on. In the past, so many Browns selections have been an example of wanting our cake and eating it too. Trying to outsmart other teams or roll the dice on the guys with the lowest floors because we covet ceilings they never manage to reach. If I had to quantify the overall vibe of Berry's first draft, I'd say he did a fantastic job of addressing the most pressing needs, which were clear for all to see, with common sense selections.
At this stage we're operating on hopes and projections, but I don't think you have to take an imaginative leap to see Phillips as a guy who will be effective on first and second down. Maybe he'll never be the perfect three down backer, but we're not aiming for third down linebackers. That is where Myles Garrett and the deep safety group will earn their keep.
With that said, I am very excited to see what type of leap we can get from Mack Wilson. I feel like he flashed some incredible moments last year and wouldn't have looked out of place if he'd been selected in the late first/early second range. From what I've seen on social media, the kid is putting in a lot of work and seems to understand the top dog spot is his for the taking.
And, as QCT has pointed out previously, B.J Goodson has been a very underrated linebacker. Just a quietly does his job kind of guy.
How Joe Woods will use this group is still somewhat up in the air, but I like the potential for this group to be at least solid from a perspective of playing the game at a high level from a foundational perspective. Maybe the group isn't strong enough for us to be among the NFL's top units, but it also should keep us well away from the bottom of the list.
Middle of your post, the outsmarting The others in the draft part. That’s us and the Bengals, in the past anyway.
Yet the Ravens and Steelers selections have been met with a “yup” & head nod for years.
Wow, BDU - mad props to you for an incredible post. Bottom line, if the front group of DL's & LB'ers improve their tackling skills, the DB's look better and better. It also frees them up for exotic blitz packages.
My older brother is a typical older brother. Still wants to rag on me and tell me I am wrong all the time. Still wants to kick my ass like we were still seven.......
We have been going round and round on this since draft night. He is certainly anti Jacob Phillips and pro Malik Harrison. He has never been able to validate that argument other than the fact that Malik wore a red jersey in college and Jacob wore a purple one.
Scouts and GM's get fired at the NFL level for being territorial like that without facts to back it up. I think that BOTH players will be fine NFL players. I just happen to like our guy's ceiling a little bit better.
Phillips 2019 totals: 113 tackles with 7.5 of those as TFL's.
Harrison's 2019 totals: 75 tackles, but 16.5 of those are TFL's. Like I said. Both will be fine players.https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/malik-harrison-1.html
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/jacob-phillips-1.html
The rumor mill was that Baltimore wanted Phillips but the Browns clearly took him and messed those plans up...so Baltimore took Harrison as their next option at LB. Considering how well Baltimore evaluates and drafts, that's a pretty solid endorsement for Phillips over Harrison. You're brother might not like that tidbit.
He'll be the first one cheering his ass off when Jacob's speed won't let James Connor get to the edge and is stoned for a 1 yard loss on a 3rd and 4. That will be enough vindication for me.
Looking at the guys we have on the roster: BJ Goodson is your downhill, thumper LB. He is a hard hitting, run stopper who will be a huge asset stopping the run. He only missed 2 tackles last season. He does leave something to be desired in coverage, but he is not terrible. He graded better than Schobert.
Jacob Phillips is a sure tackler (missed 3 all of last season), but was taken off the field in passing down at LSU. They didn't trust his coverage abilities because he was terrible at it. He usually got caught with his eyes in the backfield and constantly lost track of his coverage target. There will need to be massive improvement for Phillips to be any factor in coverage for the Browns.
Mack Wilson is by far the best coverage LB on the team. Overall, I was impressed by his rookie season and really look forward to seeing him continue to grow and mature in the NFL. He is the most versatile LB currently on the roster. Takitaki can't cover and is kind of an out-of-control bullet. I don't have much hope for him ever being a real solid LB in the NFL.
Wild Card is obviously a player they feel could be a Hybrid type (man I wanted Isaiah Simmons so badly)....Grant Delpit could be the safety that comes up to play that role. In a 4-3, as of today, I think you will see:
WILL - Mack Wilson
MIKE - BJ Goodson
SAM - Jacob Phillips
However, in the 4-2-5, we could see an combination:
MIKE - BJ Goodson/Phillips
SAM - Mack Wilson
Mike - Mack Wilson/Goodson/Phillips
SAM - Grant Delpit
We really don't have a LB that excels at everything. If we could manage to sign Nigel Bradham, that would solve that issue in a hurry. He excels as a tackler and in coverage. He has played both MIKE and SAM in his career and has been very good at both. My guess is he would be placed into the SAM role in order to allow Phillips to learn and grow.
WILL - Mack Wilson
MIKE - BJ Goodson
SAM - Nigel Bradham
In the 4-2-5:
MIKE - Nigel Bradham
SAM - Mack Wilson
MIKE - BJ Goodson
SAM - Nigel Bradham
MIKE - Nigel Bradham
SAM - Grant Delpit
Bradham (or a player like him) is the missing ingredient to what could be a pretty good LB corp and the difference between what could be a very good defense and an elite defense.
Super nice post right there
Damn, y'all laying it down this morning, huh? Nice.
I have this persistent itch (DOH!) that says we'll end up happy with the LB duo that emerges, if we can just hold on for one more day (Wilson-Phillips). Those two seem to balance each other really well, could see them settling in.
Bradham continues to be available, which sure feels like he knows where he's signing and it's about the details. Agree that we'd then be pretty damn happy with our LBs... partially because it seems like we want them to tackle runners and just avoid stepping on their dicks when it's a pass.
Have not copied a Tweet here yet, still nervous (!). Is it the copy code thing for actual insertion?
Fascinating from Doug Farrar, who's awesome on multiple levels: 60% nickel, which is oft reported as "the new base" (it is). But dime also makes up 22%. That leaves the old base in like 18% (4-3-4 or 3-4-4, usually a hybrid).
Tough time to be a LB.
Without too much to go on, my gut feeling is we're gonna miss Schobert.
We might... but the balance to that is we're talking about LBs, and I can't think of a more diminished position in the NFL. So glad it's not QB, LT, edge, CB, WR1, or even TE in this offense.
Honestly, I could just list every position that isn't LB and say I'm glad it's not that (!). Not to say it won't matter, just that in my opinion, it's the best place to save cap.
I'm not sure if it'll be because of Bradham or because Wilson-Phillips will hang on for one more day (you thought I'd stop?!), but my gut says we won't be talking about the LBs much after the season starts.
QCT your post answered my question about what our guys look like in terms of where they could fit and you threw a potential acquisition in there. Any other guys out there you see as potential acquisitions?
I am not aware of any other LB's that we are 'kicking the tires' on at the moment. I haven't even heard a peep on the Branham front in quite some time.
I think we're done signing guys too. And if we do, it'll be on friendly contract terms, but it's pretty rare for a player to give the Browns a break.
I think a Njoku trade is more likely.
As we get closer to the official reporting date, some players may give a little on contract demands. We'll have to wait and see. Obviously, Clowney, Griffen and Branham are the guys Browns fans are most interested and tracking. I think the odds are getting slimmer that we sign one, but it isn't out of the question.
Some intriguing, potentially value options could be guys like: - DE, Jabaal Sheard: Was really good in NE. He hasn't been great in IND, but he has been consistent and could be a good depth signing in CLE at the right price.
- DE, Vinny Curry: Another 30 year old who would be a short-term depth signing at the right price. Curry is very flexible (can play 4-3 DE, wide-9 & 3-4), which Woods could like. - ILB, Alex Ogletree: Was great w/ the Rams. Stunk w/ the Giants. Badly. Could be a good value if the Browns think they can resurrect his career. Maybe a 1 yr, prove-it deal.
Ogletree, correct me if I'm wrong, seemed like a situation of a guy who was good within a role (LA) but then was asked to do too much (NY) but yeah that's interesting I was wondering what happened to him. Sheard would be awesome to see him come back, just from the homer perspective. I was always bitter we let him go tbh.
The knock on Ogletree is/was that he was not willing to take on blocker and be consistently physical. This became a problem when the Rams flipped him from the weak side to the strong side (where you have to be physical and have willingness to take on blockers to be a good LB). Then, Wade Phillips switched the Rams to a 3-4 which put Ogletree out-of-place; and he was traded. He is a very athletic LB and in the right system and situation, can be pretty good. He would be nothing but a value, depth signing for Cleveland. I would also do it on a 1 year, prove-it deal. Come in, play great and get another contract. Come in, stink and it was fun, but you're out.